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К Antipode
Дата 22.06.2002 02:15:00 Найти в дереве
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Так я и говорю, что purga..

> Женя Вы пишите: "У Й87Г били 37 мм пушки a нe 45мм. Всe ви пeрeпутaли друг мoи!"
Ø Нет Женя это Вы всё перепутали. 45мм это толщина брони танка Т 34. Причём у него всюду столько: что с переди что с зади.

Nda-a! nado zhe vam tak oblozhatsia? что с переди что сзади? Nikakoi poschadi diletanty! O bronirovanii sm: http://www.battlefield.ru/t34_76_2.html
Verchniya chast motornogo otseka – 20mm bashni – 20 mm. Nikto ved ne predpolagal chto po T-34 budut s vozducha streliat? Poniali teper zachem Rudel model’ki T-34 “hmuro” izuchal?

> Вы пишете: "идитe ли прoтивoтaнкoвиe снaриaди длиa пушeк Й87Г oтличaлис oт
> брoнeбoинич 37ПAK. Чeм? Бoлфрaмoвим сeрдeчникoм. Пo тeм врeмeнaм -
> сoвeршeннo нoвoe рeшeниe. 37 мм ПAK нeмци звaли "кoлoтушкaми" a вoт с
> Рудeлeм - другaыa истoриa. Eгo W-снaриди кoрпус T-34 лeгкo прoбивaли."

Ø Ант: Женя у немцев этих колотушек было как грязи. До самого конца войны их было как грязи. И они не брали Т 34.

Tut vi sputali “kolotushky” Pak37 s dlinnostvolnoi zenitkoi BK 3 7 . Y BK nachalnaya skorost do 1170 m/sec

Name Ammunition Rate of Fire Muzzle velocity Weight

BK 3 7 37 x 263B (380 g) 160 rpm 1170 m/s 295 kg


A y kolotushki - 760 m/sec.

Y BK – wolframovii serdechnik a y kolotushki – stalnoi potomy chto proektirovali ee esche v 1928 gody protiv tankov na zaklepkah.. No dazhe kolotushka probivala 37 mm bronu na 500 metrach. A BK 3 7 s bolshei nachalnoi skorostiu W-serdechnikom s rasstoyaniya 50-100 metrov protiv broni 20mm? Reshaite sami kak vam vasha sovest "specialista" podskazhet..

> Вы пишите: "Лучшe друг мoи кaк ни стрaннo!".
Ø Ант: Нет. Хуже. И ничего странного. Рассеивание из за колебаний крыльев и подвижности платформы. И нутация которая отнюдь не увеличивает бронебойность.

Rasseivanie imeet znachenie esli vi s 1000 metrov streliaete a so 100 ili 50 - eto ne tak uzh vazhno. O broneboinosti – sm. Istochnik http://www.battlefield.ru/guns/defin_2.html

> Вы пишите: "A чтo пo-вaшeмы прoисчoдит кoгдa в T-34 взривaтсиa 37мм снaриaд? Пaр
> идeт кaк ис чaиникa?"
Ø Ант: Женя Вы же сами сказали: снаряд с вольфрамовым сердечником. Сказали? Вот Вы пишите а не знаете что это болваночка была и взрываться там было нечему. По причине полного отсутствия ВВ.

N-da... Posmotrite kak ustrien nemeckii protivotankovii 37 mm snariad. Naprimer zdes: Alex Vanags-Baginskis Stuka J87 priamo s risunkami. Bолваночка? Nemci nikogda ne ypotrebliali “chistich” bolvanok v otlichie ot Krasnoi Armii. Sm: http://www.battlefield.ru/guns/defin_2.html

No eto ne oznachaet vprochem chto bolvanki bevredni kak ludi-biolvani sm tam zhe (v www.battlefield.ru)

> Вы пишите: "Нa кaкoм пo-вaшeмы рaссoыaниу oт двигaтeлиa нaчoдиaтсиa снaриди?"
Ø Женя а Вы найдите чертяжи танка Т 34 и посмотрите сами. Снаряды вообщето держат поближе к пушке. А мотор вообще в другом отделении даже.

Vi ponimaete chto takoe detonaciya? Kak voobsche idet etot process? Ego tak skazat fiziky? Esli ne znaete sprosite ya obiasnu. Tolko v Merkave 1990-ch godov vipyska priniati mery po izolicii boezapasa da i to ne ochen pomogaet (vzriv Mercavi palestinskim fugasom neskolko mesiacev nazad) - chto uzh o T-34 govorit...

Ø Что же до фото.... Я же уже сказал: видел много и разных. Иногда очень смешные.

Nu navernoe I fashisti tak zhe smeyalis… ot radosti… hohotali priamo… :-)) v takoi vot kompanii vi okazalis...

> А то что приведённые фото сняты бортстрелком Руделя я сильно сумлеваюсь

Ya dumau vashi somnenia mi perezhivem kak-nibud’ pereborem...

Vot esche pochitaite nemnogo pro J-87 G esli ne znaete kak iskat…

In 1943 the first G-1's entered service (these being converted from D-3's). The G-1 was designed for one purpose only to kill tanks (in a way along with the Il-2 Stormavik the ancestor of the A-10 Warthog). To accomplish this mission the Gustav was equipped with two 37mm Flak 18 cannons. The G-1 and later the G-2 (converted from the long wingspan D-5)proved to be highly successful in "tankbusting" soon earning nicknames like 'Kanonenvogel' (Cannonbird) and 'Panzerknacker' (tank cracker). Most Gustavs were used on the Eastern front but could be found on the Western front as well by the end of the war.

В итоге все воюющие стороны пришли к выводу о необходимости установки на самолетах авиационных пушек калибра 37 мм и более. Установка их на Ju-87 превратила его в противотанковую модификацию Ju-87G ("Густав").
Первый вариант Ju-87G-l представлял собой доработку Ju-87D-5 под две 37-мм пушки Flak 18. Вместе с магазинами на 12 снарядов они крепились под крылом сразу за стойками шасси. В контейнерном варианте пушка Flak 18 обозначалась как ВК 3 7 (Bord Kannone 3 7 см). Длинноствольное зенитное орудие с начальной скоростью подкалиберного снаряда более 1000 м/ с пробивало бортовую броню не только американских и английских танков но и "тридцатьчетверок"
. http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/ju87g.html

the Ju 87G had a converted high-velocity 37 mm Flak 18 anti-aircraft cannon that could be installed in underwing pods. The revised cannon was known as the BK 3 7 that could be fitted just outside the main landing gear under the wings.
The new version had considerable more success against the Soviet tanks and were used to equip PanzerjДgerstaffel (tank hunter/destroyer squadron) specifically created for this means.


Initially the Germans also opted for high-velocity cannon but they did not have a direct equivalent of the VYa. Instead the Junkers Ju 87G anti-tank aircraft appeared with two BK 3 7 cannon in pods under the wings with six rounds each. The BK 3 7 was a 37mm weapon developed from the Flak 18 anti-aircraft cannon. This armament installation proved highly successful against Soviet armour despite the vulnerability of the obsolescent Ju 87 design. A purpose-designed attack aircraft was the Henschel Hs 129. As in the Il-2 the cockpit was an armoured box. With two Gnome-Rhone 14M4/5 radials captured French engines the Hs 129 was decidedly underpowered. It had a MG 17 and a MG 151/20 on each side of the fuselage but the anti-tank cannon was carried in a fairing under the belly. It could be the 30mm MK101 or MK103 but also the BK 3 7. There were even experiments with the mighty 75mm BK 7 5 in an attempt to ensure the destruction of Soviet tanks that carried increasingly heavy armour. Such 75mm cannon the KwK 39 and PAK 40 also appeared on the Ju 88P but their weight recoil and enormous muzzle blast were too much even for this twin-engined bomber. After the Ju 88P-1 later models switched to two BK 3 7 cannon or one BK 5 derived from the PAK 38.
Below a table of anti-tank cannon carried by WWII aircraft. The ammunition specified in this table is the AP round used for anti-tank missions which usually has a higher muzzle velocity than other rounds developed for the same gun.
Name Ammunition Rate of Fire Muzzle velocity Weight
MK 101 30 x 184B (355 g) 250 rpm 960 m/s 178 kg
MK 103 30 x 184B (355 g) 420 rpm 860 m/s 146 kg
BK 3 7 37 x 263B (380 g) 160 rpm 1170 m/s 295 kg
BK 5 50 x 419R (1250 g) 50 rpm 1200 m/s 540 kg
BK 7 5 75 x (3300 g) 933 m/s 1000 kg
VYa 23 x 152B (200 g) 500 rpm 905 m/s 69 kg
NS-37 37 x 195 (735 g) 250 rpm 900 m/s 150 kg
Vickers S 40 x 158SR (1130 g) 100 rpm 615 m/s 134 kg
Moulins 6pdr 57 x 441R (3170 g) 60 rpm 790 m/s 816 kg

PAK 37 Specifications:

Weight 440 kg (970 lb) towed 328 kg (723 lb) in action
Length 3.40 m (11.15 ft)
Width Unknown
Caliber 37 mm (1.46 in)
Rounds per clip Unknown
Rate of fire 15 rpm by a trained crew
Traverse 60°
Elevation -8° to 25°
Muzzle velocity 760 m/sec (2 493 ft/sec)
Projectile weight 354 g (12.49 oz)
Penetration 38 mm (1.50 in) @ 30º at 365 m (400 yd)
Practical range 400 m (435 yd)

But true as that was it remained that the Ju 87G was extremely effective. The 37 mm gun was in 1943 considered obsolete as an anti-tank gun on the ground but from the air it was still effective because the Ju 87G could attack tanks from the rear or from above were their armour was much thinner

The 3.7-cm (37 mm) Model 36
The 3.7-cm (37 mm) Model 36 and Model 37 antiaircraft gun ("Westerwald") was developed in 1938 by Rheinmetall from the precursor 3.7-cm (37 mm) Model 18 as a recoil-loader with sliding barrel and central bolt action. The barrel was 2 112.2 mm (7 ft.) long the theoretical rate of fire was 160 shots per minute and the effective rate 80. Depending on the type of cartridge used the muzzle velocity was 770-820 meters per second (847-902 yd./sec.). The maximum range was 6 600 meters (7 260 yd.) and the maximum ceiling 4 800 meters (5 280 yd.). The ammunition was in 6-round clips. The weapon's carriage stood on a triangular base. Weighing 1 544 kg (3 397 lb.) the gun could be moved on the Model 52 trailer. The Model 37 was differentiated from its precursors by its aiming sight. The 3.7-cm gun could also be installed on vehicles and buildings. After 1944 it saw action with the self-propelled antiaircraft weapon "Ostwind " on the chassis of the Panzer IV. The 3.7-cm (37-mm) Model 43 antiaircraft gun ("Schwarzwald") developed in 1943 by Rheinmetall-Borsig was a gas-pressure recoil-loader with the same ballistic characteristics as the Models 36 and 37. Its rate of fire however was higher: 250 shots per minute theoretically and 150 effectively. In ground combat all 3.7-cm weapons used artillery shields. Firing antitank shells they could pierce 37-mm (1.5-in.) steel armour at 500 meters (550 yd.).

Tak chto vi rabotaite nad soboi povishaite uroven ne v tundre chai zhivete a v Christchurch kakom-nibud... gde knizhek po tankam i samoletam pobolee chem v Zhmerinke.

K