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От
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Mirek Wawrzynski
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Владислав
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Дата
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30.12.2006 17:49:56
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Рубрики
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Межвоенные конфликты;
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Re: Cox is rather good and deep resarcher
>>Hi
>>Thanks for the information. I have not noticed this duble error and counted figures separatly by adding them.
>>Still I can not "undrestand" the amount of terrible losses had suffered by Soviets during having total superiority (in air and on land) over Japan's side? This is of course rethorical surprise.
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>Почему? Основные потери были понесены в июльских боях, когда японцы наступали и имели численное превосходство.
>Кроме того, приведенные в работе "Россия и СССР в войнах ХХ века советские потери -- итоговые, с учетом всех подразделений (в том числе тыловых), пропавших без вести, и вдобавок смертности раненых в тыловых госпиталяых. Предварительные цифры, доложенные Жуковым -- 3279 убитых.
Zukov had overshadow the influence in this combat od Grygoryj Stern, when you read the raport after the combat to the stalin it is signed by Stern (executed in X 1941). He is clearly seen on the photos in both ilustration book (Kolomyjec and Moszczanksi).
And as the raport commanders (no matter on the nationality) overestimate own victory and underestimate own losses. It is mostly politicla reason - "no reards". So i think Zukov had rather good overiw on the military situation being informed also by Stern.
>Японцы объявили о том, что их потери составили 8632 убитых при -- я думаю, что с реальными японскими потерями эта цифра соотносится примерно так же, как названное Жуковым число советских потерь. Только число выданных японцам тел, захороненных на советской стороне (то есть погибших при разгроме окруженной группировки в последнюю неделю августа) составило 6281. Сюда не вошли умершие в госпиталях, погибшие в июне, в июльских боях и в первые три недели августа, чьи тела японцы смогли эвакуировать.
This amount of killed are comming form A. Cox book (1985), he had done quite big land study and aslo get to Japs unoffical documents, so this is not officlai Japs side army figures but resarches done by A. Cox in Japs archives. I do not thing that he (Cox) ommited the other data, he get as much as he could about such deatial. Soldiers is no a needle, and each army has very statistical reports. So the Japs losses given by Cox are quite credilbe in my opinion. Japan commands had even and own intrest to minimalise this figures because had done this war witout aproval from Tokio. It was private ventrue of High staff army in Mongolia, and almost 9.000 KIA are terrible losses on the prestige of Japan land army. The lost the battle.
>Советское командование оценило потери японцев убитыми в 22-23 тыс. человек. Я думаю, на самом деле из было не менее 15 тысяч, а то и больше.
As above there were about 75.000 Soldiers and such high figures are to much of losses.
Soviet side deliberatly had overestimate Japan loses to cover own terrible losses, despite having since June 1939 amout and quality superiority in the air (+ tens of veterans from Spain + China) and and also in the tank forces. Japan had suffered much during 20-31 VIII, after sudden Soviet attakc which was for them very surprise, and they lost in the pocket a few tousend soldiers, who fought to the last.
Regards
MirekW
>С уважением
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