>>I could not agree with this, Rychagow was dimmised on 12 IV 41 by Timoszenko due to hight rate of avaryjnost i katastrofy 600-900 per year - each day 2-3 crashed planes!
>
>Какая разница когда именно и за что именно? По мнению властей они были виновны but what exactly). И наказаны так, как это было принято (for what?).
This is quite big difference to be arrested for spying or being arrested for "destruction" of power VVS.
If there were not differences what was the point if you are "kulak or burzuj" or you are simple "peasant". Mayb now it is no difference but during stalin all were counted, all, even small things, could be a proof agaist you.
Stalin's times were big difference if you were "torckis oriented", or not, for such a "stupid" claims you might lost your head as many did.
>В чем вопрос-то?
I do not know yet but trining to put toghether some puzzles in this case of pruges, looking for new data.
>>This was the main reason of his dismisal. He was killed toghter with his wife mjr Niestierenko (do you belive that his wife was also responsible for not prepring the VVS RKKA to the war? of coure she could not giving his hausbend the kisses, and he was so wron - but this is not funy and not true).
>
>Причем тут это и какая разница во что я верю? Тогдашний порядок предполагал зачастую наказание как непосредственного обвиняемого, так и его семьи. Это новость?
If you have right what about Molotow's wife, she was guilty and was several years in Gulag, but Molotow did not.
According you this means extermiantion all family member of VVS commnders and aslo in 1937-38 time too. I do not hear much abot such a extermination of wifes of killed commanders in 1937-41.
>>Zygariew who was chif of VVS RKA since 12 IV 41 got nothing for not "alarming" the aviation on 22 VI 41, he lived long after the war.
>
>Судебная система того времени была мягко говоря несовершенна и это тоже не новость.
Zygariew is gut and ychagov, Smuszkieish, Loktionow, ect. eto "sabaki" to be killed, with full responsible for destructions of 22 VI 41.
This is not, es gehts nicht!
>>Most of VVS comanders were killed on 28 X 1941 after Wyazma tragedy.
>>Gen Pawław the comander of Western Fron + his staff being killed in the begining of July 1941 exactly for the catastrofe on the front - and this is exactly this case of victims high military losses of June 1941, but the VVS RKKA chefs in October?
>
>Как сочли необходимым, так и расстреляли. Рокоссовского не растреляли ни через неделю после ареста, ни через полгода. И что?
Rokkossowski was arested before 1939, he never say that he was a traitor, spy, if you did it he never leaved the prison. Despiet he had heavy investigation Including loosing many teeths), and on VI was again the commander of 9. Mechanized Coprs in KOSO.
>>If the were guilty of catostrofa of June 1941 they shuold be killed with the Pawłow. The martial courts had not time for philosopy - Stalin said guilty and this was enough, they were killed.
>По-разному бывало.
Not exactly, Pavlov got his sentence because according Stalin was fully guilty of collapsed of Western Front (totaly bardak on the front) and all comanders who were killed with him got the same. Some days of investigation and were after "herbata".
In VVS commanders case you have long investigation, they were are4sted since May, June (before 22) and also during the war. Some of them were killed in October 1941 and others even in 1942.
In my opinion it was poitical investigation not any "catastrophe" investigation and responsibility for it.
>>If you were right Ptuchin should be killed in X 41 not in 1942 togheter to Pumpur form X 1941 who was arrested 23 or 24 VI 41.
>
>Что значит должны были быть? Не на фабрике чай.
>Павлова - под горячую руку. С Рычаговым думали, что делать, собирали материал, допрашивали. Когда решили осудить, расстреляли.
Where was then Pawlow, where was then Rychagow, may you thing about Kopiec, the last one was in fact under Pavlow but not commanded Rychagow.
Where is Minsk and where is Moscow?
Rychagow was in Academy, any connection with Pawlow after IV 1941.
>Я не понимаю поинта (point) обсуждения.
Tak bywa.
Me too not all undrestand, so I am trying to explain
For me something do not fit in killing so many high VVS RKKA commanders and I wonder why, I do not belive it the simple explanation, bo byli winowaty -czego.
Of course they do not got bulles for drinking czaj i wodka and leading VVS to the destruction, if were so what about Budionny, Woroshylow, Timoszenko, Sztemienko, Zukow
they have no responsibility for these defets (same wojskowe swiete anioly) and other simple winowaty.
To tyle sobie pogadali
Regards
MW
>С уважением, Андрей
To Igor U
"I regret I asked that question. Once again you proved you're a warlike person as always. That's why I will keep silent."
Dear Igor could you kindly tell me who did you tell that Mirek is a pigeon or holly angel. I do not think about me that way. Yes, you are absolutly right maybe others are but me not? I say again I do not hear about me that me is true pigeon or true holy angel!
Meny others things I have heard but not above.
:-).
Regards
Mir W
100% non-angel!
and non-iron too, :-)
